I'm coming to thank PV(if she's still active in this forum) personally for some aid to the technique of pee standing. After last time I went here and got the hints I've been able to practise it occasionally. I live in a university dormitory in China and there are no private bathrooms. So I have to use public ones and I've only been able to "practise" it secretly at the night. I was too shy to let other girls see my "abnormal" behavior and was also afraid of making a toilet cell a complete mess too (I once visited the boys' dorms, had an urgent pee there under guard of my boyfriend, and their public restroom was really a hell). For the first few tries things really turned out badly, sometimes I just had my pee either run down my leg or went everywhere spraying. I was fearing that I couldn't learn this skill before it got cold and I had to wear trousers instead of skirts, but my worry didn't happen. Now I am quite skillful at peeing in a standing position, even in trousers (save for tight jeans, of course) I could unzip it and pull my panties aside, spread my legs and press the side lips with fingers, and then start. I know how a boy could aim and I don't think my aim was inferior to them.
Last Saturday I showed my boyfriend this skill in a way of contest. I went to his dorm to play and found myself urgent for a pee, so asked him to be my guard as well. But he said that there was almost nobody in the whole building(most of us went back home for a celebration for the chinese traditional festival), I could notice that the building was very quiet so I allowed him to come in and simply bolted the door. He check the stalls and asked me to use a cleaner one, and I refused. He looked puzzled at me when I stood about four feet in front of a urinal(not the down-to-the-ground type), unzipped my trousers and got fly. The stream went directly into the urinal with a loud hissing sound that I was afraid someone could hear it outside the door - definitely a boy couldn't make such a sound when peeing. I went for about a minute and after I was done, there was a look of surprise and shock on my boyfriend's face. He then did himself in my position, his stream could go into the urinal, but the hitting position was much lower and there's no such loud noise.
We both drank a lot of soft drinks, and at about nine o'clock he said "How can you do this like a boy...I'm curious, and I'm also curious that how far you can get, as when I was young there had been contests among we boys, although I never joined such contest as I consider them misbehaved, bad boys." I replied, "well, if you don't care, I can show this and....personally I don't think I could do it ONLY like a boy...." He hesitated a moment and agreed, we went to the public restroom and he comforted me, "Just do it, there are naughty boys making the floor a big mess of urine every day, so you needn't worry about splashing the floor." I felt the urge of pee, as soon as we bolted the door I stood against the wall facing the open ground, and pushed. The golden stream went straight forward at first, arched midway and hit on the floor in front of me at last. The toilet was textiled with bricks 20 x 20 cm, and the hitting point was 13 bricks away from where I stood. So the distance was approximately 260cm (8'6"). I peed at full strength for 40 seconds and halted, leaving a large pond on the floor. He eyewitnessed the whole process and was completely speechless. I asked him "well, now it's your turn", and he reluctantly stood in my position, took out his thing and started to pee. His stream was slow, weak and thin... I giggled as I knew that he was completely of no match to me in peeing. He tried really hard, leaned backward to push more forward, but his hitting point never exceeded the sixth brick, i.e 120cm(3'11"). He peed more than 1 minute 40 seconds, with pauses and pulses, but he left a pond much smaller than mine in the end. I looked at him, reading his facial expression and teased him, saying, "Well, I said that... I could not do it only like a boy... right?" "Oh..yeah...yes..." he replied, his face looking fresh red that I was sure he's suffering from inferiority complex and humiliation, "maybe you are taller so... so you can do better than I can", he added (he is 5'8" and I 5'10"), but obviously he's looking for excuses. "Well, maybe, whatever." I said jokingly.
We returned to his dorm room, and for the next hour he couldn't even speak fluently. Up to ten o'clock the admin of the dorm was doing the routine check, so I had to leave there because I'm a girl and it was boy's dorm.
Yet ANOTHER doorless stall sighting. Keep in mind, I only know of about 4 doorless stalls and these sightings occur at these locations over time.
There was this young Asian guy, probably 18-19 years old, spiky hair that was bleached blond/orange. Short, good-looking guy. He came into the restroom and looked pretty dismayed to find no doors on any of the stalls. At first he went to the one next to the urinals, but I guess he changed his mind because it made him visible to everyone who walks in the door. He went to the one next to the door where he is at least mostly hidden by a partition. He quickly put down the seat and was trying to figure out how to expose just his butt and nothing else. He pulled his jeans and boxers down about mid-thigh and then pulled his boxers up to cover himself. He was wearing light green boxers with a blue palm tree print on them I think. He leaned forward as if to crap, but then reached around behind himself to grab the paper toilet seat cover. He looked kinda funny as he had to partially stand and turn around to reach the cover. He ended up showing off most of his butt to everyone. He sat back down and detached the center portion of the seat cover. Then he mooned us all again as he stood and turned around to put the cover on the seat. He finally got settled in and let out some squishy sounding farts and splashy turds. I didn't get to stick around to see him wipe, unfortunately.
At the Swap Meet, I took a dump in one of those stalls (with doors), with the high partitions. As I walked in, the first stall had some guy on the toilet who had pulled his pants all the way down. Most of his legs were exposed, since the partition gap goes all the way up to the seat. He wore khakis, brown boots and dark blue briefs with a dark blue stripe around them. He crapped with his feet firmly planted on the floor. Another stall had a guy with black shoes and socks with his black slacks and bright white briefs all the way down. He ended up standing while he wiped. Another stall had a slim guy on the toilet, jeans and grey briefs all the way down, straddling the toilet. I could tell he was thin because his legs were thin. By the way he was sitting, I could actually see his kneecaps below the partition. I guess I got lucky at the Swap Meet this time. Usually most guys keep their clothes just below butt level to preserve their modesty.
Today was a real whopper! I got up and felt like a horse kicked me in my stomach. I walked to the student center for breakfast but before i ate i went in to take a dump. I locked myself into the middle stall between two dudes who were shitting their asses off and commenced to join the music. I had to strain hard to make the first log come out but when it did it came out like it was shot out of a cannon. I felt so much better! Then proceeded to have hotcakes and sausage for breakfast and lo and behold had to take another shit. I went back in and this time there was a full house. I had to wait for a stall for about five minutes. Finally got the handicapped one on the left and shit my ass off. I felt like I was going to pass out. It was big and painful and all came out in one log. I moaned like a little kid and wiped the sweat off my forehead. It was awful. Thats what I get for drinking so much this weekend.
Sarah, my buttcrack gets sweaty from wearing my nylon panties
that I like to wear. I'm planning on checking on Zelnorm for the
lumpy poop that I've had all my life.
I don't have any good stories. And I sure miss pooping outside
because of this cold weather here in Indiana. Looking forward
to spring and summer.
I havn't posted in a while. But I just wanted to reply to shy guy on 1218.
How old were you when that story occured? I had a similar occurence when I was about 10.
I was with my grandmother at her camp. I drank about 4 cans of soda while we were there. I hadn't peed since 8, and I was starting to feel the need to go before we left at one., but didnt' want to say anything and she would flip if i didn't tell her where i was every minute. So i just held it. We got in the car and as soon as i sat down, the need started increasing. Unfortunately, we didn't go straight home either. We stopped at her friends house for about half and hour and I politely sat on her couch. Another 20 mintues down the road and i gotta go real bad. She decided to stop at my cousins house, and seems we dont' see each other very often, she thought we should play for awhile. 2 hours later and another soda, i'm in unbelievable pain, i have to piss so bad. But I know she will make a big deal if I say anything or make it obvious tht i have to go. It's only 20 minutes more to her house. We are driving a backroad and I have to grab myself a couple times. She saw once and asked if i had to pee, and started to pull over so i could go on the side of the road. But i said it was just an itch. I was really embarrased about having to go so bad, and she would make a huge issue if she knew. I tried to act normal the last 5 minutes home. It was agony. Every movement of the car pain searing through my bladder. It hurt so bad. It's been 7 hours since i peed. When we finally got there, I walked slowly, and helped her take some stuff in. I diddn't want her to know how bad I had to go.
My bladder hurt, my penis hurt, my whole body hurt. Seven hours, but i managed to hold it. It was then, and still is the worst i've ever had to pee.
Shy guy, after you peed, did your empty bladder still hurt? Did you have any leaks while you were waiting?
Tim (and Sarah)
Hi friends! How is everyone? It"s so great to see some of the old posters back (and some dear friends still around) ! I took a quick sneak, now and then at work and was delighted about some returns and envenious, I had no time to come and play as well ;-).
I had absolutely no spare minute in the past weeks as there was so much work and my best friend Peter got sick. He hurt his back during some building work on our house and could hardly move for a few weeks. In times like this we realize even more, how much help him and Robert are to us, as they are like second parents to our kids, ever so often picking them up or spending time with them.
So Peter was recovering at home and when Robert had to work we tried to make sure we were there to assist. One day I came to their flat from work and took over from Sarah and the kids, who looked after him in the afternoon. As soon as they left, he looked at me worried and said: "Sorry Tim, I have to ask you this, but I can't wait anymore. I have been needing a shit for hours now. Can you help me to the loo?" I asked him if he hurt his head rather than his back and of course I would help him to the toilet! (This is the same guy, who looked after me when I was sick and my wife was stuck abroad, who cleaned up my puke and helped me to the toilet; who has peed and pooped hundreds of times next to me the same way I have next to him since we were kids- but I know my dear friend: It's sometimes easier to help than accepting assistance.) So we slowly and carefully made the way to the toilet. He was in so much pain, when he moved and we had to take a few stops. Finally we got there and somehow got his pants down and (the most difficult part) him seated in the bowl. I asked if he wanted his privacy, but he asked with pain on his face, if I would mind staying in case he needed help. Of course, I did not and I sat down on the rim of the bathtub to give him his time. He pushed and let out a deep breath as well as lots of air on the other end while pissing a bucket. Then he really struggled. It was really exhausting for him to sit on the toilet, cause his back hurt and pushing out a difficult one was really a bit to much. His face was frowned with pain and exhaustion and all that he could squeeze out was lots of gas. After a while I asked him if I should not rather put him back to bed and go to the drugstore and get him something to assist. He said he was so desperate, if only that thing would start moving. Suddenly he asked me to get him some vaseline. I replied, "great idea" and got it from the bathroom cupboard. He got some on his finger and tried to reach his bum, but due to his stiff back he couldn't put his arm back far enough. I took the pot from his hands and told him to try and lean forward. He was reluctant and asked if I was sure. I joked that I would be gentle and told him to stop worrying. I reminded him of our time after school when we both did social sevices for over a year. I looked after two handicapped people ( a male and a female). They both were wheelchair users and it was part of the job to help them evacuate their bowels. This meant putting a suppository up the rectrum and then the girl could poo by herself but with the guy you had to massage it out. By the way, the piles the girl produced were beyond believe. So back to the story: I had to tell Peter that he wasn't my first guy after my previous experience...We laughed and I positioned a good dose of vaseline inside his anus. I have to admit it was a bit strange, cause it had been a few years since I had been with my hands at a grown man's bum, but as I said I had done it before and Peter is closer than a brother to me. I went to wash my hands. When I turned round, Peter was absolutely in a cramped position, eyes closed and face frowned. I asked worried if he was ok, or if I hurt him. He quickly shook his head and said in a supressed voice: "It's coming..." He moaned and pushed and I could start to smell that he finally was able to poop. After a few minutes he gasped and took a deep breath. A little break and then he gatherd his final strenght for the 'grand finale', which was made by several big sploshes and some little splashes. " You have no clue how relieved I feel...." I smiled at him and assured him, I would. I asked if he'd finished and if I should wipe him. He said this was really embarrassing but: "please...". I told him it was a good thing, he has never done anything like this for me...He hardly needed to be whiped. All that was a bit messy was the vaseline. I helped him to get up and we both admired his effords: The first turd, which was obviously the hardest work, reached inside the bottom hole of the toilet from the one end and -no kidding- to the rim of the seat from the other. It had the thickness of a big carrot, but the length of at least two thirds of my arm. There were about four smaller but fat and several mini turds in the water. It was a fascinatingly big production. I asked Peter when he shat last and he said honestly before he hurt his back (four days ago), so he had no clue he could not even reach around to wipe his bum. I just shrugged my shoulders and we flushed his monster pile in four flushes. I brought him to bed and fed him a bit and gave him some pain killers. He was so exhausted, he fell asleep soon. I can't blame him. Pushing out that monster dump would have worn out a healthy man. I watched a bit of telly while I ate the rest of the spagetthi, I cooked. I don't want to pride myself, but my sauce was so good that I ate more than enough. Lying around and feeling full, I noticed with relieve my body was also of the opinion that something needed to be evacuated, if I did not want to expolde. So I grabbed one of Peter's beloved comic books and entered the bathroom, which was now again freshly ventilated. I closed the window cause of the cold and got ready to stink it up again. I peed and farted a bit and started reading. When my first turd arrived, I pushed carefully, as this is always the crucial moment: I am fighting aganst haemorrhoids at the monent and it's no great news they can be a great pain in the bum. So would it hurt?- No this time was cool. Just the wonderful painfree feeling of your anus widening, the plesant pressure, then the warm turd that slides out easily and then the best part: the wonderful satisfying moment when it splashes out and drops into the water. The only good thing about painful shits like my poor friend just had, is that they teach you to fully appreciate the easy ones. The pure pleasure of relieve without worry. So while my friend slept in the room next door and outside everything was dark and calm, I enjoyed my little magic moment on the loo, forgetting all worries for a little while, just; as we say, "pooping myself empty in all cosiness...".
TO ROBBIE, ANNIE, PV, RIZZO, JANNA, ADRIAN and all other friends: Thanks so much for everybody's lovely words! I already started to write some replies, but am already to long to post it all at once. I promise at the weekend the latest, I just wanted to share this story to tell you what kept me busy and got carried away (as so often, lol)....Oh and a happy, HEALTHY and wealthy and great new year to all! LOVE, Tim
Can I do a survey amongst all you experienced poopers and pissers.
What kind of underpants do you prefer - briefs or boxers - i prefer briefs
Do you leave skid and peee stains - i tend to
What colour pants are preffered - I like white ones.
Do you ever do wet farts - follow throughs - I have had a few
Have you ever done a poo when sneezing, running, squatting etc - I have
How maany days do you wear your pants for - I do two or three
Have you ever pooped with your shirt tucked down inside your pants and made a real messs on that as well as your pants - quite often
Have you ever pooped or peed knowing that other people would know what you had done - I did once
How many times have you pooped or peed in your pants when it was a real accident
I have ust come back from London on the train and did a few squirts just for the hell of it - when I got off the train by pants were wet all around my bottom and up the back of my trousers - walking over the footbridge I let my poop out - two super long medium firm turds that coiled in the crutch of my briefs - I sat on the lot in the car and drove home the last bit really feeling good.
My answer to the last question is probably 4 or 5 genuine accident poops and probably about 10 sets of honest wet briefs since 16. I have lost count of the non accidents!
Hi: My name is Keri K. I am in my early-thirties, and am a former dancer for one of the teams in the NBA. I don't want to say which one. My husband is John, who is an American of South-Indian descent. He is kind of dark-skinned. He looks a lot like the actor Denzel Washinton, but with straight hair. Myself, I am a dark-haired Caucasian woman, who looks a lot like Vanessa Marcil(Brenda from GH). We live in a one-story house just to save money. God knows we don't need to do this, we just choose to. We have a son who is less than one year old, his name is Kevin.I run a business out of my home now. I haven't been on this site long. One of my friends told me about it. I find it very-interesting that there is a site like this one on the web(not surprised, though). It's about dang time. My husband and I enjoy watching each other poop. It is one of our greatest pleasures. Let me share the poop that I had this morning with
you: I got up @ about 6:30 am. I pulled my sweatpants(that I slept in) down. I started to push, and out came about four medium firm turds. After the first one, I made an ohhh! sound. After the second one, I made an uhh! sound. After the third one, ohh! again. Finally, with the last one, an ahh! of relief. I wiped once, and the paper was very-dirty. Same goes for the next four times. It took about five wipes to get clean. It did not smell that bad. That can be good or bad, depending on who you ask :). My husband loves it when they smell. He tells me that the smell, coming out of someone as tanned and fit as I am(As I said I am a former dancer for an NBA team, and my abs have the six-pack to show it!) turns him on. We usually go to bed to relieve his tension after seeing me crap ;). Take it easy, and I hope to post again really-soon.
Monday, January 26, 2004
Hi. I was just wondering if anyone else gets this: Somewtimes if I really gotta go poop, my upper bur crack starts to sweat! Wierd huh? Well, see ya!
Had a really wonderful bowel movement last night. It was full, firm and slipped out easily - the only problem was I fully dressed and in the office when it happened!
I was working late, doing a bunch of copies in the photocopy room at work. Gradually, everyone had left and it was about seven I guess, when I realized I really needed to go. As I really wanted to finish up the copying, I thought if I let go a few pre-poop farts, it might release some of the tension and I could take a liesurely dump later. As I was on my own in the whole office floor, I wasn't worried about being descrete so I stuck out my butt , separated my butt cheeks through my pants and let rip with a couple of really ripe farts. No sooner had I released them of course, but one of the executive secretaries came around the corner. When she inhaled my odor she was like "Ooww, that is so gross!" and waved the papers in front of her face. I told her I'd just got to the copier and I thought the foul smell was some guy from accounting! Anyway, she left pretty quickly, so the next fart I tried to do a little more quietly, and as I strained to push it out I realised I was also pushing out a large bowel movement. I stopped pushing, but it had its own momentum by then, and as I stood there shock still, I felt several firm turds push out followed by what felt like a small ammount of messy shit. I rushed to the ladies room, remembering becuase I had really tight pants on that day, I had only thong underwear - not a great barrier if you shit yourself. Once in the ladies room, I backed up to the mirror and lowered my pants to see what the damage was. Fortunately, my thong had actually trapped some of the turds, and two of them were snugly held in place, although one had slipped into my pantyhose. They were also chesnut brown and very firm. Some of the messy liquid, had of course, permeated through my hose and was soaking into the lining of my pants. Shuffling into a stall, I emptied the turds caught in my panties and hose, and removed then. Then I wiped my anus and butt cheeks as thoroughly as I could, and slipped my pants back on. I dumped my hose and panties and went home.
Smelly-That was a really funny story about flicking the poop on that lady's shoe. I kept laughing to myself even after I had moved onto other posts!
No sightings or experiences to report. I have been taking these chewable fiber tablets lately and they do let the poo slide out a bit easier. But they also give me gas. They taste pretty good and you don't have to swallow alot of water like other fiber tablets.
SMELLY GIRL: I Like your stories and love your name!
HOLA BUZZY! Yes it would be fun to poo with you out in the woods. You know how I like that too.
TRAVELING GUY: Did I stink you out again baby? Lo siento mucho...quizas yo puedo besarte y hacerlo mejor! yo sé tú sabes lo que dije. Besos a ti mi amigo.
PV: Hey that's a really cool tip about wetting the TP!! Not once did I think to do it with saliva. That makes perfect sense because it would be warm. I've dipped it in the toilet water before. Kisses to you my sweet amiga.
ROBBIE AND ANNIE: Open heart surgery?! My, my! Pobresito! (my poor friend!) I hope you're ok. Take it easy and don't try to do anything strenuous--especially grunting or straining! You should've seen Nu's straining last night. Jeeeeeez, I thought I was going to have to give her a piece of leather to bite on. She dumped a big one! Everybody here is fine. Me and Jake had our final falling out and he moved out of the house on Friday. It's okay, we both knew it was going to happen. Anyway, enough about me, I want you to get better and better. If you plan to exercise, pleeeeaaaassse follow the doctor's orders! You take care of yourself. Carmalita's orders!
I had a really good poop on Sunday. It was a real slow one that took a long, long time. Nobody was home except for Nu, so I could crackle and plop and stink to my heart's content. What an ambition, huh? I was wearing a short, black silk bathrobe with matching bikini panties that I'd slept in.
I wandered into the bathroom then shut the door. Lifting the robe and pulling my panties down to my knees, I sat down on the seat for a nice, long, steamy, creamy, stinky, soothing poop. There was a lot to get rid of too, two days build-up. I leaned forward and my black hair fell in ringlets around the sides of my face, tickling my nose. I could feel my butt open and a slow hiss of air came out smelling like stinky cabbage. Then I began farting...real slow zipper farts, one after another. One fart had to have been 10 seconds long! I wished somebody had been in there with me because when my dumps are slow and huge, I like company. I'll invite anybody in! You can tell me all about yourself when I'm taking a shit, and I'll listen!
I leaned a little farther forward, my knees closer together. I clasped my fingers together and felt a hard rippling sensation in my ????. I was beginning to push a fat turd. It was lumpy, but softer than usual and I could enjoy expelling it. I can always tell when my poops are fat because they open my butt like a pickle jar. I remember that my lips were dry from sleep, so I licked and moistened them with my tongue as I concentrated on moving my poop. An "aaaahhhhhhh" of relief emitted as I felt the log getting ready to squeeze out of me.
Then I heard Nu who was up and getting a cup of coffee. Within an instant she tapped on the door asking me if I'd gotten a cup yet. I could hear the tinkling of ceramic cups in the kitchen, then her light footsteps on the carpet. I heard her one-finger tap on the door asking if she could come in. When I said yes, she stepped in, handing me coffee. I held off on pushing that big turd until I knew she was in the room. When she was, I let it drop to the water.
"Plop!-plop!" she said, then giggled at me.
I sat upright a little, then took my coffee and sipped on it. We were talking for awhile as she drank her own coffee and picked at her face. She was really yakky for having just gotten up and covered a ton of subjects. There was a bit of silence, then about six turds came out like wet splats. I grunted from the gas that pushed them. "You're sure crapping a lot of poo this morning," Nu said, then began squeezing toothpaste onto her toothbrush. She leaned against the counter and mindlessly watched me take a shit while she brushed. I was looking at her nipples that were poking through her T-shirt. Her boobs jiggled in all directions from the action. After a few minutes of scrubbing, her mouth was white and foamy and she mumbled at me for a 'courtesy flush', then spit into the sink. Doing as she asked, I reached behind me and gave the handle a jerk and it sucked the poop down. We continued talking for awhile and I kept crapping.
I leaned a little farther forward, clasped my fingers together, and felt another nice slow load coming.
The poop crackled. I felt my ass opening wider. I held my breath for a moment, then silently pushed. My asshole squeezed shut and a log splashed down into the water. It only took seconds for a raunchy aroma to waft up from between my thighs. After an exhale of relief, I sat more upright, pulled my sleep-tangled hair back behind my ears, spread my legs wide, then peered down into the bowl. There was a brown log floating. It didn't go underwater, so I guess I was a little dehydrated. Nu grinned at me and said "Nice one?" I laughed, sat for a few minutes longer, then spread my legs wider and crapped out a couple more pieces. Nu smiled, then rubbed some lotion on her arms. "Oh well, at least it sounds like you're having a good one. I haven't been able to shit for three days, I'm jealous."
Exhaling, I relaxed, then rested the side of my face in my right hand and closed my eyes. I was humming, and tapping my toes on the floor. Then--crackkkll......sprkkkllllll....another turd was trying to come out! Nu snickered at me, stealing glances at me from the corner of her eyes. "'Gonna do some more? I can hear it."
I shrugged, then began fanning the stink from between my legs with my hand.
"Wanna smell it too?" I asked.
"I've BEEN smelling it!" she said.
After that I peed onto the pile. My logs went down okay. The smell was about a 6 on the Carmalita stink-O-meter, bad, but not deadly. I wiped easily about 5 times until I was dry, then dabbed my pussy with TP. After that, I stood and pulled up my bikini's and left Nu with the smell.
Take care, 'love you all,
Don't you ever pitty the helpless awfuly tortured toilet? It can't move and protect itself.
Louise (from France)
this is a recent anecdote about no bathroom availability for customer in shops:
Peeing themselves is awfull for me..
I was with a friend in a large blockbuster rental, to rent a dvd to watch during dinner..
My friend needed to pee badly, but they told us that they haven't public toilets when she asked the clerk, the only one was for employee only.
I told my friend to not worry, we quickly took a dvd on rent and I immediately told her to follow me on the back of the shop. There was not much coverage from the parking, but I opened the emergency staircase door and told her to follow me. We reached quickly the underground staircase, and I told her she cuold relieve herself there in the staircase, she was a bit reclutant, but when i indicated her the last two steps of the narrow staicase, she agreed that she had no alternatives and was really bursting..
I told her to go on pee while I was keeping an eye at the door which was an emergency exit of a private underground parking. My friend peed furiosly on the steps for many second, and as she was in a high squatting position the sound of her pee spashing on the step was very loud in the silence of that underground staircase, she was really afraid for someone coming, but I assured her to not worry. After about 40 secs. she was done and I offered her a tissue to wipe from my bag, then she got dressed and we went upstairs to our car, being careful to not soak our shoes in the very big puddle she left on the staircase....
When we left driving her car, she confessed that she never felt so relieved in her life, as she was very close to the point of wetting herself...